in the B-nieuws article you state: "Student organizations, which are supposed to represent our interests, accommodate the demands of the bad management rather than of the students. This in our view is called student repression."
I find this very shocking. I just wonder why you didn't involve Stylos or any other organisation first with your battle. Maybe you did, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't listen to you. I.E.: Stylos is always in search for people who want to help Stylos in discussing with the faculty about education. Why not join them?
Regarding to your fight, I would just want to say that it's better to talk first, before you're starting to fight. You started fighting when you put up all those posters. Most of the failures you stated, have reasons, which you might not know the existance of. Talking with the dean (he always applauds talking with students)first, and then taking action if you don't agree with him, would be more appropiate.
Still I agree with you on the fact that the education is getting worse. Though I am familiar with some of the reasons why the faculty has to cut in educational expenses. I know this is not because of bad management.. Try to give criticism they can work on. Good luck!
Thanks for your comment, as a matter fact we did approach Stylos, however they replied by telling us that their activities depended on the finance of Bad Management and that they were not willing to loose that support. So they chose not to join out of fear of retaliation from Bad Management. This is the same with everyone else in the faculty, everybody is afraid of Bad Management.
Since the Building burned many of us members of BAG tried to communicate our inconformities to the dean, some even wrote letters to the CVV without any response and the ones responded were months late. Bad Management doesnt take students seriously! The decision to manifest in group was not taken spontaneously it was well strategized and reasoned after seeing the unstoppable slow death of the faculty.
This is not a guessing game! this is a serious thing for us! and should also be fro you! Some students are from dsd are members but the majority come from other camps. No one advised us of anything, patronize your family not Us!
What is going on at the faculty is a very serious thing that is potentially bad-shaping the future of education in the Netherlands. Someone needed to voice concerns and it saddens us that it had to be the students, as the majority of professors prefer to stay on their 'safe' bubble...
Sounds to me as Bad Student Organisations and Bad Professors! As a Bad Architect responsible for a lot of Bad Architecture I could sympathize with that!
I even don't understand anymore what this kind of study (I mean bouwkunde) tends to pursue. A (body) builder, a (fashion) designer? A better place, a clearer plan, a (crazy) radical idea?
Anyway...
Cost-cutting is just a typical Dutch mind-set, isn't it? What else do you think the word 'goed-koop' means to achieve?
Besides, imho a school nowadays is just a mass-production of educational certificate(s). You (will) have no choice not to go to school, as it becomes your way of life. No diploma means no job means no bread.
The same as a bank has become your only choice to save your money. Where else you want to save it? In your bedroom?
As a customer would leave the bank when he/she has no trust anymore, so you can also leave the institution when you have no trust. And see, what you can do outside the whole system and institution.
Sorry, I don't mean to offense by this comment. Just want to get it clearer from BAG about what's really going on...
Yesterday i asked both STYLOS and fsr if they were contacted by you, both said there was no real contact about the subject except for some small talk. They really feel attacked by your article, you stating that they for one do not listen and fight for the student opinion, and for two that they would be too afraid to take action against the faculty. For In reality they've been fighting on the subjects you state for some time now.
Anyway, i heard some rumours about a couple of things which you can maybe confirm: - i heard that the Dutch government made a huge mistake with the division of money over the three technical universities. Since the tudelft has the most students, it should receive the most money. Instead Eindhoven got it. They spend the money right away, leaving the tudelft empty handed. This would be the main reason for the tudelft to start cutting on the budget. since universities get money for every student that gets a diploma, the tudelft keeps accepting all students because in 2 years they will get the proper subsidy again. This leads to less teachers per student right now, but makes sure that the TU can keep accepting all students who want to apply in the near future. Also they try to get more international students because they generate relatively more money. I dont know of this is a good thing, or not. I just wanted to share so that maybe someone can confirm this?
Dear Anonymous. We did not approach Stylos and FSR officially yet, mainly because these organs are very institutionalized and therefore have limited possibilities for radical (in the sense of going to the root or origin) demands.
This is not because we don't value the work that is/has being/been done in these bodies.
In fact this was even voiced by Stylos board members during our poster campaign, saying that as Stylos, though very appreciative of the action, they had no means to voice such opinions.
For now we want to keep the debate free of any institutional pressures and only focused on the issues at hand. Stylos and FSR ca become their own voices on an open platform for debate.
We have been in contact informally as you said and hope to contribute to the future of the faculty together.
8 comments:
Dear Anonymous,
in the B-nieuws article you state:
"Student organizations, which are supposed to represent our interests, accommodate the demands
of the bad management rather than of the students. This in our view is called student repression."
I find this very shocking. I just wonder why you didn't involve Stylos or any other organisation first with your battle. Maybe you did, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't listen to you.
I.E.: Stylos is always in search for people who want to help Stylos in discussing with the faculty about education. Why not join them?
Regarding to your fight, I would just want to say that it's better to talk first, before you're starting to fight.
You started fighting when you put up all those posters.
Most of the failures you stated, have reasons, which you might not know the existance of.
Talking with the dean (he always applauds talking with students)first, and then taking action if you don't agree with him, would be more appropiate.
Still I agree with you on the fact that the education is getting worse. Though I am familiar with some of the reasons why the faculty has to cut in educational expenses. I know this is not because of bad management..
Try to give criticism they can work on. Good luck!
Thanks for your comment, as a matter fact we did approach Stylos, however they replied by telling us that their activities depended on the finance of Bad Management and that they were not willing to loose that support. So they chose not to join out of fear of retaliation from Bad Management. This is the same with everyone else in the faculty, everybody is afraid of Bad Management.
Since the Building burned many of us members of BAG tried to communicate our inconformities to the dean, some even wrote letters to the CVV without any response and the ones responded were months late. Bad Management doesnt take students seriously! The decision to manifest in group was not taken spontaneously it was well strategized and reasoned after seeing the unstoppable slow death of the faculty.
In that case I do have to assume that you belong to the group of DSD Msc-students. Did Arie Graafland advise you to go public?
This is not a guessing game! this is a serious thing for us! and should also be fro you! Some students are from dsd are members but the majority come from other camps. No one advised us of anything, patronize your family not Us!
What is going on at the faculty is a very serious thing that is potentially bad-shaping the future of education in the Netherlands. Someone needed to voice concerns and it saddens us that it had to be the students, as the majority of professors prefer to stay on their 'safe' bubble...
Sounds to me as Bad Student Organisations and Bad Professors! As a Bad Architect responsible for a lot of Bad Architecture I could sympathize with that!
I even don't understand anymore what this kind of study (I mean bouwkunde) tends to pursue. A (body) builder, a (fashion) designer? A better place, a clearer plan, a (crazy) radical idea?
Anyway...
Cost-cutting is just a typical Dutch mind-set, isn't it? What else do you think the word 'goed-koop' means to achieve?
Besides, imho a school nowadays is just a mass-production of educational certificate(s). You (will) have no choice not to go to school, as it becomes your way of life. No diploma means no job means no bread.
The same as a bank has become your only choice to save your money. Where else you want to save it? In your bedroom?
As a customer would leave the bank when he/she has no trust anymore, so you can also leave the institution when you have no trust. And see, what you can do outside the whole system and institution.
Sorry, I don't mean to offense by this comment. Just want to get it clearer from BAG about what's really going on...
Yesterday i asked both STYLOS and fsr if they were contacted by you, both said there was no real contact about the subject except for some small talk.
They really feel attacked by your article, you stating that they for one do not listen and fight for the student opinion, and for two that they would be too afraid to take action against the faculty. For In reality they've been fighting on the subjects you state for some time now.
Anyway, i heard some rumours about a couple of things which you can maybe confirm:
- i heard that the Dutch government made a huge mistake with the division of money over the three technical universities. Since the tudelft has the most students, it should receive the most money. Instead Eindhoven got it. They spend the money right away, leaving the tudelft empty handed. This would be the main reason for the tudelft to start cutting on the budget.
since universities get money for every student that gets a diploma, the tudelft keeps accepting all students because in 2 years they will get the proper subsidy again. This leads to less teachers per student right now, but makes sure that the TU can keep accepting all students who want to apply in the near future. Also they try to get more international students because they generate relatively more money.
I dont know of this is a good thing, or not. I just wanted to share so that maybe someone can confirm this?
Dear Anonymous.
We did not approach Stylos and FSR officially yet, mainly because these organs are very institutionalized and therefore have limited possibilities for radical (in the sense of going to the root or origin) demands.
This is not because we don't value the work that is/has being/been done in these bodies.
In fact this was even voiced by Stylos board members during our poster campaign, saying that as Stylos, though very appreciative of the action, they had no means to voice such opinions.
For now we want to keep the debate free of any institutional pressures and only focused on the issues at hand. Stylos and FSR ca become their own voices on an open platform for debate.
We have been in contact informally as you said and hope to contribute to the future of the faculty together.
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